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听证笔记

已有 63 次阅读2026-6-13 04:55 |个人分类:案件本身|系统分类:离婚男人

以下是为您翻译的法庭案件记录与备忘录by Patricia(注:原文在最后一句末尾“it seemed to i”中断,翻译已在结尾补充完整句子“让法官留下了深刻印象”):
巴里·M·奥尔特曼 诉 史蒂文·G·约翰逊
涉及律师费的法庭案件
洛厄尔(Lowell)听证会
2026年6月11日

为下一次听证会需要牢记的几点:

史蒂夫的陈述进行得很顺利。他首先请求法官允许宣读陈述,随后充满感情地进行了宣读,明确表示这绝非小事,而是给他带来了相当大的精神痛苦。
关于奥尔特曼指出的案件复杂性以及漫长的辩论日,法官说:“我认为这是一个引人入胜的案件。” [这可能是一个加分项。因为法官整天都在听一些相当直白的抚养权案件,涉及有酗酒或赌博问题的配偶,任何能让案件显得更有趣的事情对她来说可能都是件好事。]

史蒂夫自发地引用了两个判例,一个是(类似)默里诉默里(Murray vs Murray),另一个涉及“罗斯”(Rose)这个名字。需要在这方面获取更多信息吗?他在向法官抛出这些判例时,听起来非常渊博、消息灵通。

法官表示她会就社保扣款(garnishments)做一些研究,具体针对任何扣款的限额;奥尔特曼说限额是65%。史蒂夫在开庭陈述中提到了72%。[最好能澄清一下这72%,因为奥尔特曼似乎不同意这个数字,而且这似乎是史蒂夫论点中非常关键的一部分。]

奥尔特曼提到了他所谓的“受托人程序(trustee process)”(这个术语在新 England 地区意为“扣押”——“受托人”是指持有欠被告的资金的雇主,他们将这些资金的一部分交给法庭或律师,而不是给雇员),其中涉及《第208章第36A条(Chapter 208 Section 36A)》和《第4.2条规则(Rule 4.2)》。他将其描述为“诉讼途径”——我想他指的是收取律师费的两种可能方式。他早些时候曾说,“必须有一个程序”来收取费用。[也许史蒂夫应该指出他已经支付了多少钱。他可以查一下像他这样案件的平均费用,因为他欠下的律师费超过了他20年来支付的全部子女抚养费。当他自发地提出这一点时,似乎让法官留下了深刻印象。]

一些相关日期:2004年起诉离婚;2007年离婚判决最终敲定;随后提交了减少子女抚养费的动议。该动议在离婚判决敲定后不久便紧接着提交;史蒂夫可以对此进行说明。他是从哪一个时间点开始失去工作的?又是从哪一个时间点申请破产的?]

吉布森法官(Judge Gibson)判处的律师费本应在90天内付清,但当时并未支付。[原因为何?需要对此进行一些说明。]

法官对该案拖延至今的性质感到担忧:“这永远也完不了。”记录下这一点很重要。但另一方面,她也严厉批评了奥尔特曼,因为奥尔特曼暗示史蒂夫提交了过多的动议。法官表示,史蒂夫拥有非常明确的法定权利,只要他想,就可以提交任意数量的动议;至于多少算过多,轮不到奥尔特曼来评判。她说,任何时候只要出现“情况变更(change in circumstances)”,史蒂夫就可以提交动议。[请务必记录下引发未来任何动议的情况变更。]

法官询问奥尔特曼关于被告的“支付能力(ability to pay)”,奥尔特曼回答说这“不是一个考虑因素。支付能力并不能免除债务。”但史蒂夫已经申请了破产。这会如何影响他的欠款?此外,法律上难免不会在一定程度上承认一个人的债务偿还能力吗?奥尔特曼在这里听起来非常冷酷无情。史蒂夫确实指出,如果他失去了大部分的社会保障金(退休金),他将需要花上40年的时间才能还清奥尔特曼的律师费。这是一个很好的观点,表达得很到位。

奥尔特曼对他的律师费做出了直截了当的定性:“这就是未付的子女抚养费”,并且“吉布森法官已经批准了受托人程序(即扣押款项)”。也许史蒂夫需要一个更强有力的论点,来证明这些费用仅仅是律师费,而不是子女抚养费;在这里,“具有……的性质(in the nature of)”究竟是什么意思?

法官表示她了解其他法院的裁决(奥尔特曼称他在其中三个法院都胜诉了,而史蒂夫败诉了),但她会做出自己的决定。这对史蒂夫的立场来说是希望所在,但也确实表明目前的形势对他非常不利。

如果法官最终说“你现在别无选择,要么全额支付所欠款项,要么去进行调解”,史蒂夫该怎么办?保罗认为这很有可能发生,因为史蒂夫的案件对法官来说似乎是一项非常繁重的工作,她可能想把它从自己的案头移走;但另一方面,比起她在一整天漫长的抚养权审理中听到的其他案子,这个案件要有趣得多。她会不会觉得审理这个案子能让自己名留法学史册?所以值得投入时间?(我不知道这类事情是如何被评判的。)

法官当时并不知道社会保障金的扣款限额是多少。奥尔特曼告诉她是65%。他说,对于普通债务,是不能扣押社会保障金的——见《美国法典》第42卷第40条(42 USC Section 40)。但见《美国法典》第42卷第659条(42 USC Section 659)中的例外规定。(这与史蒂夫提到的72%是如何对上号的?)。不难看出为什么史蒂夫当时希望获得联邦法院的澄清。

当史蒂夫说他20年来一直按时付款时,苏(Sue)剧烈地摇头。史蒂夫随后提到,在离婚案解决后不久,苏曾从离婚资产/基金中提取了12,000美元,用于和孩子们去英国旅行。他说,如果她拿走了那笔钱,他就有权不支付子女抚养费。所以这到底是怎么一回事?这似乎与史蒂夫所说的“每周都按时支付”的陈述相矛盾。这似乎是史蒂夫抗辩的一个重要部分,因此需要进行解决,或者至少留在手头以备不时之需。

关于联邦案件。法官(斯蒂恩斯法官 Judge Stearns)采取了“弃权/自制(abstained)”,这一说法是否准确?奥尔特曼引用了一些判例,其中包括“扬格诉哈里斯案(Younger v Harris)”(我不确定我是否听错)。去查一下他提到的那些判例。有涉及到“次要因素/第二要素(second factors)”的内容吗?
最后法官说“这件事情并不简单”,她需要考虑一下。她还表示,她不想完全照搬其他法院的裁决,这为得出不同的结论开辟了道路。

法官的一句题外话:如果史蒂夫去世,而房子留给了孩子们(我假设有一份遗嘱对此有明确说明),他的债务就会“消灭(extinguished)”,孩子们不需要偿还。她似乎想让他意识到这一点,这表现出了她对史蒂夫精神状态的关心,而史蒂夫当时显然相当痛苦。

法官的另一句题外话:她询问奥尔特曼,是否考虑过对他持有两笔数额巨大的留置权(liens)的房产行使赎回权/取消抵押品赎回权(foreclosing)。他没有直接回答,而是说:“他(史蒂夫)可以卖掉房子付钱给我们,或者去接受调解。”

另一句题外话:史蒂夫向联邦法院提起诉讼,以获取对社会保障金扣款规则的“澄清(clarification)”。但看起来他似乎没有得到这个澄清?这在听证会期间并不明朗。因此,有必要查看那个案件,看看它会对目前的事态产生什么影响。

如果您需要进一步整理这些法庭抗辩点,可以告诉我是否需要:
  • 查询《美国法典》第42卷第40条与第659条中关于社会保障金扣押限额的具体条文?
  • 核实《扬格诉哈里斯(Younger v. Harris)》联邦弃权管辖原则(Younger abstention)在本案中的适用情况?
  • 针对苏(Sue)拿走12,000美元的争议,梳理一份事实反驳逻辑
请让我知道您希望如何 继续准备下一次听证会的法律论据



Barry M. Altman v. Steven G. Johnson

Court Case involving attorney fees

Hearing in Lowell

June 11, 2026

Some points to keep in mind for next hearing.

Steve’s presentation went over well. He began by asking the judge for

permission to read it; he then read with feeling, making it clear that this was no

small matter but one that had caused a good deal of mental anguish.

Regarding the complexities of the case and the long day of arguments noted by

Altman, the judge said, “I think this is a fascinating case.” [Anything that makes it

more interesting to her, after hearing rather straightforward custody cases all day,

involving spouses with drinking or gambling problems, might be a plus.]

Steve spontaneously cited two examples of case law, one being (something like)

Murray vs Murray, and one involving the name Rose. Get more on these? He

sounded very well informed when he tossed these to the judge.

The judge said she would do some research on Social Security garnishments,

specifically on the limits of any garnishment; Altman said the limit was 65%.

Steve mentioned 72% in his opening remarks. [It would be good to clarify the

72%, since Altman doesn’t seem to agree with it, and it seems a very critical part

of Steve’s argument.]

References made by Altman to what he called the “trustee process” (this term is

used in New England to mean “garnishment” — the “trustee” being the employer

holding funds owed to the defendant and turning a portion of those funds over to

the court, or the lawyer, instead of giving them to the employee) included Chapter

208 Section 36A and Rule 4.2. He described these as “avenues to proceed” - I

think he meant two possible ways of collecting his fees. He said earlier, “There

has to be a process” to collect fees. [Maybe Steve should note how much he has

paid already. He could check on the average amount of fees paid in a case like

his, since he owes more in fees than he paid for the entire 20 years of child

support. When he made this point spontaneously, it seemed to impress the

judge.]

Some dates: Filed for divorce 2004; 2007 final; filed motion to reduce child

support. This motion came very soon after the divorce was final; Steve could

comment on that. At what point did he lose his job? At what point did he file

bankruptcy?]

The fees awarded by Judge Gibson were to be paid in 90 days; they weren’t

paid. [Why? Need some comment on that.]

The judge is concerned about the ongoing nature of the case: “This is never

going to end.” It’s important to note this. On the other hand, she chastised

Altman for suggesting Steve filed too many motions. She said he had a very well

established right to file as many as he wanted to file; it wasn’t up to Altman to say


when it was too much. She said any time there was “a change in

circumstances” he could file a motion. [Be sure to note the change in

circumstances that provoke any future motion.]

The judge asked Altman about the defendant’s “ability to pay” and Altman said it

“was not a factor. There’s no exemption for ability to pay.” But Steve had filed

bankruptcy. How does this affect what he owes? Also, isn’t there always some

recognition of a person’s ability to pay a debt? Altman sounds very hard-hearted

here. Steve did not that it would take him 40 years to pay Altman’s fees if he

loses the bulk of his social security. This was a good point, well made.

Altman said flat out about his fees: “This is unpaid child support” and “Judge

Gibson approved the trustee process (i.e., garnishment).” Maybe Steve needs a

stronger argument that the fees are fees, not child support; what does “in the

nature of” mean here?

The judge said she was aware of other courts’ findings (Altman said he won and

Steve lost in three of them) but that she would make her own decision. This is

hopeful for Steve’s position, but does suggest there’s a lot going against him.

What will Steve do if the judge says you have no choice now but to pay the full

amount owed or to go to mediation? Paul thinks this is a good possibility

because Steve’s case looks like a lot of work for her and she might want to get it

off her plate; on the other hand, it is a much more interesting case than the

others she heard through a long day of custody issues. She might think she will

get in the books on this one? So it’s worth spending time with it? (I don’t know

how these things are judged.)

The judge did not know what the limit of garnishment on Soc Sec was. Altman

told her 65%. He said on a regular debt you can’t garnish SS — see 42 USC

Section 40. But see 42 USC Section 659 for an exception. (How does this figure

with the 72% Steve mentioned?). You can see why Steve wanted some

clarification from the federal court.

When Steve said he had always paid on time for 20 years, Sue vigorously shook

her head. Steve later mentioned that Sue had taken $12,000 out of the divorce

funds to pay for a trip to England with the kids soon after the divorce was settled.

He said if she took that money he had a right not to pay child support. So what is

the story here? This seems to contradict Steve’s statement that he paid every

week on time. And this seems an important part of Steve’s case, so it needs to

be addressed, or at least kept on hand if it’s needed.

Regarding the federal case. Is it correct that the judge (Stearns) “abstained.”

Altman cited some case, including Younger v Harris (not sure I heard this

correctly.). Take a look at the cases he mentioned. Something about “second

factors”?)

In the end the judge said “This isn’t straightforward” and that she would have to

think about it. She also said she didn’t to go by what other courts have decided,

opening the way for a different conclusion.


An aside from the judge: If Steve dies and the house goes to the children (I

assume there is a will in which this is clearly indicated), his debt is “extinguished,”

and the children do not have to pay it. She seemed to want him to realize that,

which showed some concern for his state of mind, which was obviously pretty

painful.

Another aside from the judge: She asked Altman if he had considered

foreclosing on the property against which he held two sizable liens. He didn’t

answer directly but said, “He (Steve) could sell the home and pay us or go to

mediation.”

Another aside: Steve filed in federal court to get “clarification” on the Social

Security garnishment rules. But it looks as though he didn’t get the clarification?

This wasn’t clear during the hearing. So it’s important to look at that case and

see how it affects things.




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回复 法律零碎 2026-6-19 04:45
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